Thuggin’ bubbles makes the kids go crazy…
I was all ready to go in deep to deconstruct the myth of Tupac being in the Top 10 list of rappers of all time and I just realized that he may not even make the Top 50 list. Calling Tupac the G.O.A.T. is like calling Lil’ Wayne the “best rapper alive”. The only way either of these scenarios is possible is if you remove every other rapper from existence.
I originally was going to compare Tupac’s lyrics against these other rapper’s best songs…
Rakim
NaS
Jay-Z
Ice Cube
B.I.G.
LL
Kool G Rap
Common
Big Pun
Andre 3K
Big L
KRS-1
Then I realized that I had left off so many other rappers who deserve to get placed in that control group.
Redman
Scarface
Ghostface
Raekwon
E-40
Treach
Black Thought
GZA
Method Man
Mos Def
Talib Kweli
And then I realized that there are these rappers who will come to surpass Tupac in lyrical quality like…
Joell Ortiz
Joe Buddens
Royce da’ 5-9
Crooked I
Game
Saigon
Fabolous
And then I thought about how eazy it was to make a list…
Young Jeezy
Kanyeezy
Lil’ Weezy
Lil’ Eazy
Febreze
Okay, maybe I’m wrong on that one. Tupac might could rap better than Febreze.
It aint all about PACS lyrics, his cadence, the emotion in his songs, his influence on the culture and how he made you feel when bumpin his shyt. He’s not the greatest ever but he is a legend, no doubt.
It’s like you read my mind. I found a Doo Wop 95 Live part II on the net this weekend. I was going to post about it tonight.
Slick way u broke this down. U already know how I feel.
A dude like Wale would discombobalate 2pac.
Was 2Pac just way ahead of his time and was our first big time emo rapper? If so, glad we got that out the way 10+ years ago.
+Pharoahe Monch
I think he was the embodiment of a particular sub-genre of rap, one that I wasn’t particularly exposed or tuned in to–since it just wasn’t my style. Since dude has released 400 albums since he died I think it’s only served to inflate legend. I still believe his talents were better served in another artistic forum, such as writing or acting. I did like the emotion though…
Two-Pack Shaker… One of rap’s extremely overrated…
E-40 better than Pac? I admit as a southern Cali native I’m biased, but I cannot and will not accept that. I actually think a deep deconstruction would be pretty interesting.
Where’s AZ?
I’m with Get Right. 2Pac will never be one of rap’s top lyricists, but as a complete artist, he reached a lot of people. It’s like Nirvana in ’90s. They weren’t the best musicians (at least Cobain wasn’t) but their music was simple and people connected with it.
pic deserves a huge pause
i thought that was reh dogg at first
Tupac was trash = Boring = Not important. Couldn’t of blogged it better myself.
Only Pac can wear tight leather jeans and a bustier in the How Do You Want It remix video……Wait that wasn’t cool was it?
Makaveli, Me Against the World, and RU Still Down were pretty decent.
Pac was like Nas because he rapped more about the streets, Being black, and life rather than clever, witty punch lines. That is why more people like his music than most other rappers. The difference between Pac and Nas is that Nas is a liar while Pac tells the truth about a lot of shit.
Nas talk about guns but he never been shot and he never bust no guns. Jay-Z talk lots of shit but he never sold drugs. Rakim got good lyrics but he is lightweight. Common is lame and inconsistent. Big L is overrated. Ice Cube is a liar. 3 Stacks is mediocre at best. Kool G Rap has a good rhyme scheme but that nigga seem like Nas with the obvious lies. Big Pun was overrated. Redman is funny. Mr. Meth need a few more years of classics before he can be on the top list. E-40 is cool but not top class. Mos and Kweli are fucking liars. Both Ghost and Chef are annoying and overrated. LL, KRS, and maybe Scarface are the only consistent niggaz on that list besides B.I.G. and Pac. Here is the new list:
LL
KRS
Scarface
Pac
B.I.G.
MC Shan
MC Ren
Big Daddy Kane
Master Ace
Eazy-E
You could also have added Run, maybe Chuck D, maybe Erick Sermon or Parrish, maybe Rakim, maybe Kool G Rap, Biz Markie, and maybe Craig G. Besides the rappers I mentioned, most other rappers are either marketing schemes, inconsistent, or they just plain suck. Any rapper on my top ten list or even my short list can destroy any rapper dead or alive. The only problem they might have is battling themselves (B.I.G. vs. Pac turned into both of them dying. KRS destroyed Shan)
You never hear about niggaz challenging the rappers on my list. Canibus challenged LL and now that nigga is singing showtunes or something. Snoop got away with dissing Eazy-E because he was on Dre’s nuts for years. How many times Nas and Jay-Z got challenged by even minor league niggaz and lost? (Camron, Jim Jones, Nature, Cormega) And why isn’t Prodigy on that list? Why isn’t 50 on that list? They are the new breed at least. Niggaz is actually living what they talk about unlike them fake ass MTV best rapper award niggaz.
I hope youre just referring to rapper/lyrics and not the whole of an MC. Move a Crowd and a group of people is something Tupac did better than anyone.
This dude R.O. must be on dust. You deserve to lose your hearing for those comments. Eazy E top 10? He created an incredible movement, but didn’t always write his own lyrics. Shan and Ren weren’t even the best MC’s in their crew. The others I can’t say anything about.
Big L overrated? bonkers!
No one says Melle Mel? For real? His verses are still better then all of the new (c)rap.
I think if you have Kool G you don’t need Big Pun.
Yeah it’s true Pac and Biggie were products of Viacom. oh well
Word. Add Ras Kass, Chino XL, Tip and Phife, Busta, Jada, Em, Slick Rick, Prodigy…etc…
Any time I have to buy two of something, be it two gallons of milk, or two loaves of bread, I call it a Shakur of milk, or a Shakur of bread. I would hope that we could get the world to use this clever and true new usage of the word.
I leave it to you guys.
I’m going to make Fabreze a Boogaloo character.
Pac ain’t even in my top-anything. He was the black Cobain at the time. ‘Pac didn’t change my life, so…
I love these arguments. So with what dude said upthread, that rappers are only as viable as the reality they lived? I look at rappers as storytellers. I could care less if Jay-Z sold game hens in real life. What does that matter?
And Dallas left DOOM off his list. I feel some type of way about that.
R.O…..are you nuts!?!? can you please tell us the songs where Cormega, Cam, Nature or Jim Jones(???) gave Jay and/or Nas the business? It’s a reason why these cats are weed carriers turned disgruntled employees or just straight nobodys…Decent rappers, but can’t create good music or perform live. Your basic mixtape-slick-talkers, that blame record companies, listeners, court cases, and everything but themselves for their lack of success.
…or how about ONE bar from Eazy E thats made him iller than Ice Cube?
Word is Bawn….ALL rappers are liars, my favorites included. Know that. Some are better liars than others, but liars nonetheless.
To me, in order to be on anybody’s list, you have to have at least ONE solid album under your belt. Did MC Ren even have an album? If so, please give me the name, one single, release year. I need to know, but I refuse to let google know that I’m searching for that crahp.
Pac never moved a crowd like BDP, or Dougie Fresh, or Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince for that matter.
Jerz –
Ren did have a solo joint. Two I think, but don’t quote me on that. That first one was pretty ill. After I heard it I thought he was underrated. No GOAT, but closer to Cube than before I heard it.
Wow were do I start…
First off I have to address DirtyJerz on this..
are you nuts!?!? can you please tell us the songs where Cormega, Cam, Nature or Jim Jones(???) gave Jay and/or Nas the business? It’s a reason why these cats are weed carriers turned disgruntled employees or just straight nobodys..
even though I’m sure you’ve heard it Id say check Fuck Nas/Nature by Cormega..Homie bodies Nas. Thats actually my only prob with that statement. People stay sleepin on Mega and he’s to talented for that and certainly not ANY sort of weedcarrier. As far as Cam, nature, Jim Jones I couldnt even agree more with ya.I also agree that R.O. is nutz on a level!!
Big L overrated????
Rakim lightweight???
Common lame????
Kool G Rap has a good rhyme scheme but that nigga seem like Nas with the obvious lies?????????????????????????????????????
Big Pun overated????
This is all CLASSIC hip hop your talking about. All those guys are LEGENDS in the game.
As far as the post Dallas, I partially agree. Tupac is nowhere near the top of my list for sure but I can’t deny he’s a legend for a reason. The man did put out great music and reached people on a level. As far as his lyrical ability that can be debated. I really never thought it was all that. Here’s my list as far as MC’s. No real order..
Kool G
Rakim
Kane
Biggie
Pun
Big L
Black Thought
Jay-Z
Andre 3K
Cormega
Scarface
Rae
Ghost
Nas
Monch
Eminem
Come up/Lower Scale
Crooked I
Royce
Pep Love
Pusha T
Gift of Gab
AZ
Wale
Joell
Torae
These GOAT discussions could go on forever and ever and ever and ever and………..
damn I just realized how long I ranted..wooooooow
Sure Nas is a liar when it comes to street shit, but he’s a talented liar. And how are you gonna call Pac real when his whole career was based off of becoming more and more like a minor character he played back in 91? So he’s real because he shot a cop or messed with some crazy Haitian cats he had no business dealing with and should’ve had the sense to avoid? Tupac was that one little nigga in the group that always started shit because he had someone significant in his corner. Ol’ nose ring havin, bulldyke lookin’ ass nigga.
FEEL MEH!
And all that shit that gets attributed to Pac, Ice Cube did it at least twice as good. Even the Hollywood shit. Could Pac do shit like Three Kings or Barbershop? Hell naw!
I brought up the Ice Cube stuff in case any one brings up East Coast bias.
Hey, isn’t Cormega, Cam, Nature or Jim Jones the same person?…Ha!
True story tho’, Kin, I know that Cormega joint…kinda nice, but I wouldn’t say he ethered the cat. For someone to be ethered, its gotta be by a worthy opponent. Mega is just not that dude. Not even in a Buster Douglas kinda way.
i think anyone who rates any of the goats on lyrics alone is missing the point….sure Redman, Ghost, AZ, Cube, Jay are GREAT but can they MOVE you like big or pac or nas?….uhmm naw
Wow I thought Pac would get more respect than this. Although he wasn’t the greatest Lyricist. He can go song 4 song with anyone. He has more bangers than KRS, Kane,and BIG (because he only had 2 albums).
He was never on my favorites list but I gotta give credit where its due.
Or was it the fact that he died made people not want to express their true feelings about him?
Damn,
SMH @ all you niggas wasting time spewing hate on Pac. If that aint the ultimate sign of respect I don’t know what is. The man been dead for over ten years and yall still on his nutz. I’m suprised yall screen name aint Kidda Jones.
BXS– fucking Saigon? Really? REALLY?! Come the fuck on, even for shock value. Guy is biggest walking douche since Papoose fooled us for about three minutes– and at ‘Poose was almost a second rate Canibus without the bad sci-fi.
re: Kool G. Rap nuthuggers, PLEASE explain whe he fell SOOOO far of after “Live and Let Die”? Drugs? Depression? Combination? Until then, yes, he was nearly a complete MC; afterwards he’s like a retard fever dreaming “Scarface” = embarrassing.
Now let me say I’m not a Tupac fan myself but I check the derision because of his relationship with Smif N Wessun and Buckshot; now maybe that’s opportunism on their part that never really came to fruition but I’ll credit Tupac’s desire to, like, communicate.
Fuck Common too, jackoff thinks Brawta is yard style, asswipe.
# Combat Jack Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
A dude like Wale would discombobalate 2pac.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
but then ‘pac would “prA’li” turn around and kick Wale’s ass. That guy doesn’t look like he could fight at all.
And I’m just gonna throw Termanology’s name into the mix of names that have been thrown out here, just because I’ve been listening to a lot of Term as of late. When Term is on point he kills it. And Brother Ali, dammit. Simply because I dusted off “The Undisputed Truth” yesterday and that shit is nice.
LOL @ Jdot! so underrated, you forgot the name of the joint!
Fuck Nas by Cormega is classic
I value MCs that can move crowds. Soulja Boy is the current Tupac. He makes an audience do the ‘Superman ‘dat Ho’.
I think that Tupac was a smart entertainer who grasped the idea of media manipulation and he decided to run with his character.
What if all the Tupac albums released after his death were fakes? What if this dude was being mimicked by another rapper because the franchise of Tupac was too valuable?
Spot on Dallas. Game might be stretching it a bit far, but yeah, Pac shouldn’t be on anyones top10 MC’s list.
@WWIB fuck outta here…Saigon been fuckin dope…. go listen to his material (Old and new): lyrics, flow and delivery. Sai>>>papoose and yes, Saigon>2pac. He just need to get that damn album out.
Sean Price>tupac
PushaT>tupac
But I think sayin Game is better is a bit of a stretch DP. Pac>Game, easily.
@Dallas: co-sign. People always forget that Pac didn’t get into any legal trouble until after he had a deal. He knew how to market himself perfectly. I can’t knock that. I also like how you broke your list like a pyramid. With the legends at the top, followed by the solid MCs, the up-and-comers and the middle of the road dudes.
Also, people forget that LL vs. Canibus beef was on some WWF shit. One of those Beef documentaries has the phone call where they’re talking about how it was all supposed to play out. Also, LL’s last few records have been straight ass. That said, his earlier work is still classic.
Its fucking amazing the reaction that a drop questioning Pac’s greatness generates.
There ain’t no question in my mind. Sonn was wacksauce.
that photo is ridiculously fruity.
homo-thug-erotic . wtf?
People are saying 2pac aint the g.o.a.t just because one dood said it, once one brave person says it… the flood gates frikkin open..
case in point, cam dissing hov.. now every dog and his bitch diss Hov like he isnt the G.O.A.T
There must be some merit to the argument because every time someone questions Pac’s greatness, the fans run to the rescue while the dissidents make their claim. But you know his status must be questionable since he’s the only legend/G.O.A.T. candidate whose status gets questioned. Kool G? Kane? Rakim? KRS? No one ever questions their status.
Phonte deserves to be in the same list that starts with Rakim.
Phonte has the best discography of the 2000s with 6 dope Little Brother albums. Not to mention 2 Foreign Exchange albums & the Phonte/Eccentric comedy album. Ironic in a decade that so many bitch about crappy radio music, they also sleep on good shyt like Phonte.
Phonte possibly already the GOAT of lyricism, ill metaphors, & double meanings. If dude keeps making dope albums thru say 2015, dude would have a legitimate shot at the GOAT rapper status.
I co-sign whoever mentioned Chino XL. Chino is frustrating, because Chino is extremely talented lyrical rapper, yet dude only makes albums every 5 years (1996, 2001, 2006).
Putting out an album ain’t brain surgery and Saigon’s is… where, exactly? And I l-o-v-e like Al Green himself songs that shout “Just Blaze! Just Blaze!” at the start almost as much as ones that go “Scott Storch!” Saigon is the poster boy for retard “consciousness” in the 21st century, Son is lucky he’s still on the streets after some his knucklehead moves. I just hope he’s using the time from his non-career in show biz to get an education or at least a CDL.
re: Pac, I am still curious what any of ya’ll think of the BCC Tupac relationhsip. The one I love like one of my limbs, the other I hardly care about except as a weird NYC crime story, yet there was that mutual interest and respect. In a world where “real” means almost nothing at all, I think we all still agree it says SEE Boot Camp Clik in the dictionary.
The Music Director
Who Walk In Brooklyn
damn dp.. treach? hows naughtybynature gonna make yer list.
hating on treach is crazytalk. he killed it on every NBN track ever
co sign El Gringo Colombiano on Tigallo status (complete entertainer there)
I would add Killer Mike to that tally as well
In an adjacent pyramid
Ras Kass
Chino XL
Kool G Rap
Cormega
San Quinn (Bay Area)
are on the same ground (lesser neighboring pyramid)
where is Slick Rick in the main structure?
1 classic album (Great Adventures)
2 solid albums (Behind Bars and The Art of Storytelling)
haven’t listened to “The Ruler’s Back” yet
Best retort goes to:
ovid bowsprit Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Any time I have to buy two of something, be it two gallons of milk, or two loaves of bread, I call it a Shakur of milk, or a Shakur of bread. I would hope that we could get the world to use this clever and true new usage of the word.
I will proceed to catch a Shakur of OE 40’s after work.
The nigga’s dead… has been for a while. Let that man thug in peace.
Solid list.
I would of threw Sean P, Styles, Jada up in there as well.
LMAO at Frebreze
Still no MELLE MEL? STILL? Nobody got Mel’s back?!!?!?!?! Tell me the verse he spit that was meh. I challenge you.
@Amadeo: Melle Mel is dope and rarely mentioned, probably due to his era. However, there’s freestyle he does on Edan’s Fast Rap mixtape that is pretty much unparalled.
I would nominate Phonte for the up and coming MC section of the pyramid, the one with all the Slaughterhouse guys.
@ Amadeo….
ERRRRRRRRRRRRRAH!!!!
PS – lets not act like this pic of Two Pack don’t look like something from a Muppet PSA on hygiene…
Damn…10 years ago the battle was who’s better Pac or BIG, now PAC can’t even get a mention……While PAC is not Top 10, neither is a lot of cats that people throw up on top. Its all about your preference, and remember the shit changes daily.
anyone who says that their top will never change is a dumbass and I dare them to ink that shit on their arm!!!! I will send you two aces if you name your number one and then ink that shit on your arm in BIG BLOCK LETTERS.
DMX was once in my top 10, dude went completely crazy, got demoted. Meth used to be high in my status, kinda went sub par with the work, got demoted. Keith Murray had way high status on my list, that extra weight from his jail time got him demoted.
I’m loving at least a couple cats throw Mega in the mix..home boy is painfully underrated in every aspect. As far as QB mc’s goes I wouldn’t pick anyone over him to listen to except mayb Kool G, and thats w my thought that Nas is and always will be the king of QB as far as mc’s go.
To the Treach comments… Hell yea he deserves mention. He’s another cat who peeps were not givin dues to possibly just cuz of NBN success. Treach is lyrical like a mafuka!!
LMAO at that pic of PAC lookin like a somalian child whos never seen a bubble bath
beans >>>>>>>> e-40